By Lara Ehrlich

CHICAGO FIGHTING ARTS: Tell me about your book, Chicago Boxing. Is it part of a series?

SEAN CURTIN: Philadelphia, Detroit, Boston, and Cleveland put boxing books out with Arcadia Publishing . . . we got them all and read them first, so we could do ours and put it together a little bit better than they did. . . .

CFA: The book has fantastic photographs.

SC: We had over 400. [J.J. Johnston] collects them, I collect ‘em. . . . I’ve been collecting since 1947, when I was 6 years old. . . . I just liked boxing when I first saw it. I started shadowboxing all the time. [He throws a few jabs across the table.] I got to memorize all the fighters that were on TV. I have Ring Magazines that go back to 1922, ‘46, ‘47-8-9. And I had all the 1930s . . . every Ring Magazine all the way to the present.

CFA: Who were your favorite boxers?

SC: Pete Gavallan and Archie Moore. Gallavan—he was a Cuban fighter. And I saw [Moore] on TV when I was a kid. He came to Chicago to train a fighter and asked me to drive him here and there because I know the city. I got to know him. . . . Great man, great man, very sweet. Oh, what a guy—being African-American living in the times when he lived, with racism, prejudice, and how he overcame all that with his wit. He was a self-educated man. One of my heroes, Archie Moore. I would have loved to have him as a father.

CFA: Do you think any boxers are equal to Moore today?

SC: No. There’re a lot of guys to watch, but nobody today is equal to Muhammad Ali or Moore.

CFA: What made them the greatest?

SC: I think there were more fighters then. There was only one champion, so they were the real champions. . . . And they weren’t protected, like today. Fighters are protected. If you’re a fighter and you sell a lot of tickets, your opponent’s going to be somebody that’s only got one leg. I’m just exaggerating there. But they’re going to make sure you’re above him in class. . . . In Moore’s day, in Ali’s day, there was no protection. You fought who you fought and you either won or lost. Moore turned professional in 1936; he didn’t win the title until 1952. He had close to 200 fights before he won the world title. He had about 15 losses. You learn from losing. No, nobody can compare to them.

CFA: So, boxers were of better quality in the past?

SC: I read my old magazines and there’s a 1925 or ‘26 magazine where, say, Jack Johnson is saying, “Oh, Dempsey doesn’t compare with the men of my era . . .” when, in reality, I think he does. If you read the 1950s, Marciano doesn’t compare with Dempsey, or Louis. Yeah, he does.

CFA: Speaking of Chicago boxers like Johnson and Dempsey, how has boxing changed in Chicago over the decades?

SC: Well, at one time, boxing was the number one sport in Chicago. . . . The Mecca of boxing was here in the late ‘30s and the ‘50s. All of the ‘50s, really, because the IBC was here then—that was the International Boxing Club . . . and all the big fights came to Chicago because it was headquartered here in Chicago Stadium.

CFA: Do you think Chicago is still the Mecca for boxing?

SC: Oh, no. Las Vegas. It’s the casino money. . . . Chicago will never be big-time in boxing again, unless casinos are brought back . . . there’s not going to be any in the near future. . . . Who knows where boxing will be then. Boxing might be a dead sport in the United States, because [it’s] a hungry man’s sport.

CFA: What do you mean by “hunger”?

SC: Hunger is . . . there’s not much on the table to eat. The only clothes you have are the clothes on your back. Parents don’t have a job. That’s why boxing was so booming in the ‘30s and ‘40s—because of the Depression. That’s why your good fighters today come from Panama—come from poverty; Columbia—come from poverty; Mexico—from poverty. They’re hungry fighters. Puerto Rico—poverty. That makes you a tougher person. That’s where boxing comes from.

CFA: Are Chicago fighters still hungry?

SC: At the turn of the century, we had the Irish ghetto, the Jewish ghetto, the Italian ghetto. That’s why we had such good Jewish, Irish, Italian fighters. As time went on [and they became more educated], there’s less and less [boxers] every year at the Golden Gloves. To give you an example, at the Golden Gloves when I fought, there were about 500 or 600 entries. Now, it’s not even 200.

CFA: You have been involved in the Golden Gloves over many years—first as a boxer, then what?

SC: I had my last fight in 1966, I think. In 1967, I started to judge fights, and in 1971 or 1972, I started refereeing, and then, in the late ‘70s, I became a professional judge, then I became a professional referee. I refereed fights all over the world.

CFA: What do you like about refereeing?

SC: I’m in the action. Brings back a lot of old times. And I think I do a good job, because people tell me that when I get out of the ring. In Grand Rapids, a fellow said, “I’ve been coming to this fight for 66 years . . . you’re the best referee I’ve ever seen.” You know you did a good job. And the good thing is you’re in the ring with the action and you’re not getting hit. [Laughs]